day, 5:38 am
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Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
This could completely be an isolated matter so that is why I am bringing it hear for a thread to discuss and explore more.
I know two wonderful individuals that were once Lutherans (LCMC) and then converted to Evangelical Protestant. They belong to one of those mega church types and believe that everyone outside of their faith is damned to hell. They believe it to be a mission from Christ to convert us all to the light of salvation through their faith. It has created a great divide in our friendship as well as their relationships with others. They basically did away with all their small group studies and started attending only Evangelical ones. They have become very condescending to any view opposite of their faith and quiet judgmental. Has anyone else gone through this or are they any Evangelicals out there in CAF world to clarify if this is an isolated matter or a norm among Evangelicalism?
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Dustin No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father. John 10:18 
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#2
Today, 6:35 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
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They're new, so they're fired up. Depending on what church they ended up in, they'll either settle down eventually and turn back into "normal" people or else they'll double down on it and make themselves and everyone else around them miserable. Do you happen to know what church they've started going to?
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#3
Today, 6:46 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
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__________________
Dustin No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father. John 10:18
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#4
Today, 7:00 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
Haven't quite had that problem since most people around me are at
least baptized as Catholics (if not regular church-goers).
I can see how a congregation like this can attract a certain kind of person who feels like they "aren't being fed", or are more attracted to the "flash" and "pizazz" of that kind of service... but that certainly doesn't mean they have 100% of the truth. Look at it this way; take the band "KISS" and the composer "Bach". One puts on a pretty wild show, the other has some of the best music ever written. One is fluff, and the other is substance. These guys got sucked in by the enthusiasm. I would rather have "steady" and "solid", myself. Let's see if they're (their church) still around in 2,000 years.
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 C.A.F. ~ Where the rocks of ignorance are smashed with the hammer of enlightenment.  Veneratione ad Deum ~ Christus subditus ~ Fidelis pontifex ~ Verum ad meipsum Worshipful to God ~ Obedient to Christ ~ Loyal to the Pope ~ True to myself
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#5
Today, 7:03 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
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The thing to do, in your case, is to show them two things: One, that you know who the real, biblical Jesus is and two, you love Him and you are doing your dead level best to serve Him. Even if they and you can't agree on anything else, as long as you can agree on those two points, then everything else is just details (at least from our perspective.) Let things like Baptism and the Sacraments roll of your back for a while. Don't compromise what you believe, but don't expect them to compromise what they believe, either. Just show them the love of Christ as best you're able and then let them see that, at the very least, you're a Christian too. Eventually, with a little bit of pastoral support on their side, they'll come around and see that maybe... just maybe... Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, and (gasp!) even Catholics are welcome in heaven just like good, bible-believing Baptists are.
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#6
Today, 7:07 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
OSX is right. They'll probably settle down eventually, once the
initial euphoria of the "newness" wears off... Stay their friend (true
friends don't bail unless for a VERY good reason), and stay true to the
Faith.
__________________
C.A.F. ~ Where the rocks of ignorance are smashed with the hammer of enlightenment. Veneratione ad Deum ~ Christus subditus ~ Fidelis pontifex ~ Verum ad meipsum Worshipful to God ~ Obedient to Christ ~ Loyal to the Pope ~ True to myself
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#7
Today, 7:26 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
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They are very much into Chan, Piper, Platt and many other New Calvinist. They are also into spreading the Gospel, which I have no problem with that, but it tends to be more of "you are going to burn in hell if you do not walk to the light (Evangelicalism)" and I am not a fan of that tactic. We remain their friends, however, they are the ones that pushed away because we did not share in their newfound faith.
Quote:
__________________
Dustin No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father. John 10:18
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#8
Today, 7:37 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
I had this from Evangelicals I knew online only when I converted to
the Catholic Church. Some do not consider Catholic's to be Christian. I
felt a bit upset myself when I faced this, but ultimately if they
believe that we are not "saved", they mean well by trying to bring us
all to the light.
I guess try and develop the virtue of patience and if they are ever interested in understanding Catholic doctrine you can direct them to some resources. Be the best Christian you can be and pray for them.
__________________
The bread I will give is my flesh for the life of the world (Jn 6:51).
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#9
Today, 7:54 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
Over the years I lived in the Bible Belt I had this happen several
times. However, I do believe that they are following their faith in the
same way we do it's just that we disagree with what each other are
saying. They are regularly told by their pastors to evangelize their
Catholic friends, family and neighbors as we are not saved and headed
straight to hell. While I agree some may settle down after a while, I
also believe that if they remain with this faith it only gets worse and
at some point in time they will severe all ties with those who don't
follow their path. Unfortunately, socializing with the unsaved is
something they will not continue to do forever because the Bible tells
them to correct us and if we don't change take others with them to try
again and if we still don't change leave us behind. This is difficult
for me because I want to have friends who love and serve God even if
they are not Catholic but I don't expect to be in conflict because our
ways of believing and serving differ.
__________________
Peace be with each of you  Please join me in praying for our Pope Francis!
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#10
Today, 7:59 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
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He's about where most of us in evangelicalism are with regards to the catholic church: We see you as having the truth of the gospel but as also having a lot of other stuff that we don't agree with added to that. We don't think that being Catholic automatically make you a Christian, and I do note that many Catholics seem to take exception to that, but neither do we believe that being Baptist, or for that matter, a member of the Christian & Missionary Alliance automatically makes you a Christian. What makes you a Christian is what you believe in you're heart and we can't see that. That's what I mean by "show them the love of Christ." Show them what's in your heart and eventually, they'll come around to see that you love and serve the same God that they do. As long as they see you as a hell-bound reprobate (or as long as you see them that way, if you do), you're never going to get anywhere. Only once this becomes an "in-house" discussion between brothers and sisters in Christ will they drop their guard and open up to you. Anything you say to them now about the Church or the Sacraments or anything else even remotely Catholic in nature will sound like... well... Popery to them. You need to focus on the things you share in common before you can move on to the things you don't. Just my two cents.
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#11
Today, 8:04 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
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__________________
Dustin No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father. John 10:18
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#12
Today, 8:09 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
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#13
Today, 8:10 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
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__________________
Dustin No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father. John 10:18
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#14
Today, 8:12 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
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 Whoa! We're all damned?! I guess that's why they chose the name "Ignite!"  On a serious note, I'm a bit surprised that LCMC members would fall prey to a mega church with a message like that. Almost the entire LCMC is comprised of traditional, formerly-ELCA churches who left when that communion started drifting into mainstream protestantism. From what I have seen/known of LCMC churches, they tend to do a fairly good job of catechizing their own. Very unusual that they would convert to something so... extreme. 
__________________
Don
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
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#15
Today, 8:35 am
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Re: Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?
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As a refresher, the Five Points of Calvinism are: Total Inability - Man, because of Original Sin, is utterly incapable of wanting to love God. Unconditional Election - God, by his own decree and according to His own good purposes, chooses whom to save. Limited Atonement - God provides for the salvation of the Elect, and the Elect only, by Christ's death on the Cross. Irresistible Grace - God, having decreed and provided for the salvation of the Elect, works supernaturally by the power of His Holy Spirit to effectually call the Elect to faith. Perseverance of the Saints - God continues to call the Elect to faith in Him after their conversion in such a way that not one of them will fall from His grace. The point that usually gets chucked by the "4-pointers" is the notion of Unconditional Election. Usually what you hear is a notion of "Predestination by Foreknowledge." That is, that God knows who would choose him, if they could, and thus chooses to elect those that would have responded, if they could have, to salvation. Us "real" Calvinists have a term for that view: Arminianism. You also sometimes hear some complaining about the Limited Atonement, but that's usually a distinction without a difference. Christians of all stripes believe that Christ's death on the cross was sufficient to expiate the sins of the whole world but that it is only efficient for the Elect (regardless of how you define that term.) The only people who really disagree with that notion are Universalists and they ain't any kind of Calvinist no matter how you slice 'em. What separates the New Calvinists from the "old" Calvinists is that, while we hold to a Reformed view of Soteriology, we generally reject pretty much everything else Calvin believed and taught, especially his Ecclesiology. We're Calvinists, sure, but we're by no means Presbyterians. There's also a decided emphasis on sanctification that is largely absent from more traditional Calvinist thought. We're Holiness Calvinists, for lack of a better term. Maybe a good comparison would be to the Calvinist Methodists (and yes there was such a thing, once upon a time.) |
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