Catholicism on tolerance and a family problem-- once a catholic always a catholic working4christ2 working4christ

Today, 2:33 pm

Philae Trial Membership   Join Date: July 23, 2013 Posts: 1

Catholicism on tolerance and a family problem Hello, I am writing here to seek a possible solution within the doctrines of Catholicism to a very grave problem in my family. I'll give the short version and forgive me if this is the wrong forum (it seems to discuss doctrine though). I come from a traditionally Catholic family, only a few actual Catholics remain, but baptism of newborns is still a tradition held. I have never been Catholic and converted in my teens to another religion (about ten years ago). Recently, my aunt became aware of my conversion and has been aggressively harrassing me about it. She believes baptism permenantly makes me Catholic whether I believe or not. She has not particularly bothered the non-religious in our family but has targetted me for, I believe, my non-Christian religious beliefs I have been discussing this problem with Catholics and I was pointed to several places, finally here and to this document (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p3s1c1a3.htm) as a statement of the Church's support for my religious freedom. My aunt eventually countered with points 1739 and 1740, claiming that my freedom is limited and fallible and I've deviated from moral law by rejecting Jesus (in her language, I never rejected Christianity as I never accepted it). I want to leave aside how all of this, both her behaviour and the resources I've uncovered, has made me feel about Catholicism, I'm here to ask, for the sake of my family's stability, is there any Catholic catechism or statement that either expressly denies any Church authority over my person despite the baptism or my right to be free of these repeatedly and often aggressive attempts at conversion? Our family, if it came down to out and out conflict, would take my side, but if I can resolve this peacefully via some doctrine of the Church, I would prefer that. Thank you.

#2     Today, 2:42 pm

bben15 Junior Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: April 21, 2013 Location: United States Posts: 326 Religion: Catholic

Re: Catholicism on tolerance and a family problem Quote: Originally Posted by Philae Hello, I am writing here to seek a possible solution within the doctrines of Catholicism to a very grave problem in my family. I'll give the short version and forgive me if this is the wrong forum (it seems to discuss doctrine though). I come from a traditionally Catholic family, only a few actual Catholics remain, but baptism of newborns is still a tradition held. I have never been Catholic and converted in my teens to another religion (about ten years ago). Recently, my aunt became aware of my conversion and has been aggressively harrassing me about it. She believes baptism permenantly makes me Catholic whether I believe or not. She has not particularly bothered the non-religious in our family but has targetted me for, I believe, my non-Christian religious beliefs I have been discussing this problem with Catholics and I was pointed to several places, finally here and to this document (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p3s1c1a3.htm) as a statement of the Church's support for my religious freedom. My aunt eventually countered with points 1739 and 1740, claiming that my freedom is limited and fallible and I've deviated from moral law by rejecting Jesus (in her language, I never rejected Christianity as I never accepted it). I want to leave aside how all of this, both her behaviour and the resources I've uncovered, has made me feel about Catholicism, I'm here to ask, for the sake of my family's stability, is there any Catholic catechism or statement that either expressly denies any Church authority over my person despite the baptism or my right to be free of these repeatedly and often aggressive attempts at conversion? Our family, if it came down to out and out conflict, would take my side, but if I can resolve this peacefully via some doctrine of the Church, I would prefer that. Thank you. The document, Dignitatis Humanae, of the Second Vatican Council support religious freedom. And yes, according to Church teaching, you are forever Catholic by your baptism. You cannot change that. Points 1739 and 1740 point out that freedom is not unlimited. So, not all beliefs can be tolerated. But, this is only in extreme cases. If, for example, the religion advocated the extermination of all black people, obviously, we should limit the practice of that religion. If these points were referring to rejecting Jesus, then there was no point in issuing the document. I highly doubt you converted to a religion that advocates something other than peace. Your aunt should not be discriminating against you because of your religious beliefs. She should be praying for you, instead. __________________ Per Dominum nostrum Jesum Christum, et Beatam Virginem.

#3     Today, 3:21 pm

1ke Forum Elder   Join Date: May 25, 2004 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 21,489 Religion: Catholic

Re: Catholicism on tolerance and a family problem Quote: Originally Posted by Philae is there any Catholic catechism or statement that either expressly denies any Church authority over my person despite the baptism or my right to be free of these repeatedly and often aggressive attempts at conversion? No. She is correct. You, if baptized a Catholic, are always a Catholic and the Church does indeed have authority over you. Authentic freedom is not the freedom to do "whatever you want". Authentic freedom is freedom to do the good. Quote: Originally Posted by Philae Our family, if it came down to out and out conflict, would take my side, but if I can resolve this peacefully via some doctrine of the Church, I would prefer that. That is too bad. While she is certainly right, she is not being prudent by her aggressive posture and by bringing dissent and discord into familiy relationships. __________________ Pax, ke ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.

catholic answers forum Bashing the protestants --Are Protestants preaching false doctrine/Blasphemy????

Jul 3, '13, 9:58 pm

pablope Regular Member   Join Date: September 29, 2010 Location: California Posts: 5,713 Religion: catholic

Re: Are Protestant/Non-Denominational Christians preaching false doctrine or even Blasphemy???? [quote=dronald;10942065] Quote: Originally Posted by Jon S Interesting. Do you have any information on why it wouldn't have been in the canon from Constantinople? Edit: So sometimes Canon only meant what was read in the liturgy? Keep in mind..the reason for establishing a canon was to have a standard set of readings for the Mass. This is what Trent says:the Council of Trent, Session Four, would state: "If anyone does not accept as sacred and canonical the aforesaid books in their entirety and with all their parts, as they have been accustomed to be read in the Catholic Church and as they are contained in the old Latin Vulgate Edition, and knowingly and deliberately rejects the aforesaid traditions, let him be anathema."

#32     Jul 5, '13, 7:58 pm

steve b Senior Member   Join Date: June 27, 2004 Location: California Posts: 6,509 Religion: Cradle Catholic

Re: Are Protestants preaching false doctrine/Blasphemy???? Quote: Originally Posted by RaiseMeUp A debate I keep finding myself in with my protestant acquaintances is what they call the "Apocrypha". In my opinion, if all 73 books are Divinely inspired, then they are without error. What gives anyone ANY authority to remove even one word from the scripture, let alone add a word to alter the scripture??? Isn't the unpardonable sin Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Wouldn't referring to Divinely Inspired scripture as irrelevant or erroneous be going against the Holy Spirit, therefore blasphemy? And what I don't understand is Sola Scripture as the center of belief yet, excluding the work of the 7 books removed from the Bible. That seems to contradict itself... going by scripture alone yet, the scripture they are so steadily rooted in is incomplete. . . . . . . . This is an old book but useful in this discussion you're having. http://www.catholicapologetics.info/...ism/wbible.htm __________________ To doubt is the greatest insult to the Divinity.[St Padre Pio]

#33     Jul 7, '13, 9:25 am

Arizona Mike Regular Member   Join Date: May 28, 2011 Posts: 1,561 Religion: Catholic

Re: Are Protestants preaching false doctrine/Blasphemy???? John C. Wright, the science fiction author (and Catholic convert) just started an interesting series of articles on his blog on why he chose Catholicism (as opposed to a Protestant denomination) as his faith when he abandoned his atheism. He goes into some detail on why canonicity is such an issue in his conversion to Catholicism. His website: http://www.scifiwright.com/ The posted articles thus far: http://www.scifiwright.com/2013/07/a...-on-authority/ http://www.scifiwright.com/2013/07/a...he-messengers/ http://www.scifiwright.com/2013/07/a...e-magisterium/ From the last article: Quote: The third point that convinced me of the truth of the Catholic claims is the paradox of accepting the canon of scripture while rejecting the teaching authority, that is to say, the Magisterium, of the Church. This is asserting an infallible scripture was canonized by a fallible Church; or again that an authorized scripture was authorized by an unauthorized Church. [...] In sum, the Protestant argument suffers from a crucial and fatal defect: You cannot take the Christian Bible as the sole authority from which to judge what Christians should and should not believe, and then argue that the Christians have no authority to interpret the Bible, no authority to write the Bible, no authority to say which books are authoritative and which are not. The stark fact is that the Bible has no authority outside the authority the Church, acting on her own authority, grants to the Bible. The Bible cannot witness to its own truth. The only logical reason to accept the Bible as true is to accept it on the witness of the Church that wrote, compiled and sanctified it. If you think the Church is filled with liars and idolaters and that the Pope is the Antichrist, then you have no grounds to think that any documents produced by the Church are not the documents of liars and idolaters and antichrists. But suppose it were not so. Suppose Luther had the authority to rewrite and re-edit the Bible. In that case, the Bible cannot be the sole and final authority on matters of Christian doctrine: Luther himself is. But Luther did not heal the sick and raise the dead and do the other mighty works which prophets routinely perform in order to show a divine sanction supports their words. He can simply give no warrant for such a claim of authority. __________________ "The path that leads us toward what is most consonant with us, pushes us into Mystery, makes us enter Mystery." - Pope Francis

#34     Jul 8, '13, 9:16 am

steve b Senior Member   Join Date: June 27, 2004 Location: California Posts: 6,509 Religion: Cradle Catholic

Re: Are Protestants preaching false doctrine/Blasphemy???? Quote: Originally Posted by Arizona Mike John C. Wright, the science fiction author (and Catholic convert) just started an interesting series of articles on his blog on why he chose Catholicism (as opposed to a Protestant denomination) as his faith when he abandoned his atheism. He goes into some detail on why canonicity is such an issue in his conversion to Catholicism. His website: http://www.scifiwright.com/ The posted articles thus far: http://www.scifiwright.com/2013/07/a...-on-authority/ http://www.scifiwright.com/2013/07/a...he-messengers/ http://www.scifiwright.com/2013/07/a...e-magisterium/ From the last article: "The third point that convinced me of the truth of the Catholic claims is the paradox of accepting the canon of scripture while rejecting the teaching authority, that is to say, the Magisterium, of the Church. This is asserting an infallible scripture was canonized by a fallible Church; or again that an authorized scripture was authorized by an unauthorized Church." [snip] R.C. Sproul a Protestant authority and PhD, said it this way. "We ( i.e Protestants) have a fallible collection of infallible books" sheesh! I wonder if he regrets saying that? __________________ To doubt is the greatest insult to the Divinity.[St Padre Pio]

#35     Today, 3:27 pm

danieljokeefe Trial Membership   Join Date: July 23, 2013 Posts: 1 Religion: catyholic

Re: Are Protestants preaching false doctrine/Blasphemy???? Quote: Originally Posted by RaiseMeUp A debate I keep finding myself in with my protestant acquaintances is what they call the "Apocrypha". In my opinion, if all 73 books are Divinely inspired, then they are without error. What gives anyone ANY authority to remove even one word from the scripture, let alone add a word to alter the scripture??? Isn't the unpardonable sin Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Wouldn't referring to Divinely Inspired scripture as irrelevant or erroneous be going against the Holy Spirit, therefore blasphemy? And what I don't understand is Sola Scripture as the center of belief yet, excluding the work of the 7 books removed from the Bible. That seems to contradict itself... going by scripture alone yet, the scripture they are so steadily rooted in is incomplete. . . . . . . . hello-- can you be more specific as to what you view as Protestants? as this is a protestant "bashing" forum-- and as i review the other threads and postings- - it appears that protestants-- also include -- Pentecostal, Evangelical, Lutheran, Calvinist, Baptist, church of Christ- - also included denomination that include sensationalists, where no miracles are for -today, that they died out with the last apostles.. so i have no idea what scripture understanding to evaluate when some on on this forum says -- what do you think of the protestants and the gazillion denomination ?? Especally because the pope has said -- that there is salvation and the hop of heaven -- available out side of the catholic religion system??